Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dan Fouts/archive2

Dan Fouts

Nominator(s): Harper J. Cole (talk) 01:07, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about former NFL quarterback Dan Fouts, a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

It's my second attempt to promote this article, having failed in 2022.[1] Criticisms of that version of the article included the structure, a narrative that drifted away from Fouts, a lack of proofreading and an over-reliance on statistical databases as sources.

This version is substantially changed, and has received a copyedit. Statistical databases are only used in the stats section of the article and not in the main body. I've also removed some material and added events that I missed the first time around. It should now be closer to a pass than last time.

Harper J. Cole (talk) 01:07, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't use fixed pixel size. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:20, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Now corrected. Harper J. Cole (talk) 14:54, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Comments to follow - SchroCat (talk) 14:09, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SchroCat, are they still on their way? Gog the Mild (talk) 20:08, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gog, yes, sorry - been a bit tied up recently, but I'll try to sort today. - SchroCat (talk) 08:07, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"in Kentfield, California, for his first two years and started some games as a sophomore in the fall of 1966": three things with this.1. I don't understand what you mean by for "his first two years": was the school only in Kentfield for two years? Secondly "started some games as a sophomore" feels rather informal and incomplete. Do you mean that 'in late 1966 he played football for the school in his sophomore year'? Thirdly, "fall" fails MOS:SEASON.
'position after play that was described as "extremely jittery"': was his play described as such, or the team's? Clarifying should make this a slightly smoother read too
"not play for the Ducks during his first year at Oregon (1969); instead he started for the freshman team": for the rest of the world that doesn't speak American, you may have to explain this more fully, even if in a footnote, as I'm completely baffled.
"(1969)", "1970" (and others) fail WP:EASTEREGG. "1972 season" is fine
"to veteran passer Tom Blanchard": can one be a "veteran" in less than four years?
"the poise of a senior." Should be "the poise of a senior". Will the full stop outside (per WP:LQ
"Dick Enright.[38][39][40][41]": Do we need four citations for this? Sometimes less is more with the distracting little numbers, as long as everything is covered

Done to the end of college; more to come. - SchroCat (talk) 17:29, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing:

'total disarray,"' should be 'total disarray",' with the quote mark inside the comma, per WP:LQ
"it... Fouts" should be "it{{nbsp}}... Fouts", per MOS:ELLIPSIS
"Fouts' $82,500 contract": you don't need to repeat "contract"
"rejected the attempt by Fouts to become a free agent": cleaner to rephrase as "rejected Fouts' attempt" – the rest is very clear from the context
"canary-eating grin on... He talked": another nbsp needed here before the ellipsis
"in 1979" is another EASTEREGG (as is 1980 and 1981)
"had shared with Hadl": who?
"this since 1977...": another nbsp needed here before the ellipsis
'Garvey and his troops."' should be 'Garvey and his troops".' with the full stop outside the quote marks, per WP:LQ
"reported that he had scheduled": needs clarifying who "he" is (it could be Foult or Garvey)
"was knocked out of a win": bit of an MOS:IDIOM (and when I got this far in the sentence I thought he had been knocked unconscious, as that's what "knocked out" also means)
"to a 34–28 overtime upset of the 11–0 Miami Dolphins": I had to read this a couple of times before it's meaning became clear. Maybe rephrasing slightly along the lines of "to a 34–28 overtime upset of the Miami Dolphins, who were 11–0..."
"Fouts passed for 3,686 yards despite": "He" would do here, as he's the named subject of the previous sentence
'stage for a trade,"' should be 'stage for a trade",' per LQ
"nerve and courage... He": another nbsp needed here before the ellipsis
"Chargers records" (sub title): Should this be "Chargers' records" as it's possessive?
"In the fall of 1997": fails WP:SEASON

That's my lot. Please ping me when you're done. - SchroCat (talk) 11:04, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

SchroCat I've gone through these now. The only one I'd question is the second to last one. While one could put a possessive apostrophe, I think it would more commonly be treated as a Noun adjunct. I found an example.[2] Harper J. Cole (talk) 00:27, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - All good from me and good luck with the rest. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:44, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

I've copyedited a little while reading through; let me know if you disagree with any of the edits.

"He was a third-round draft pick by the Chargers in 1973. Fouts struggled while playing for losing teams": at first I thought "teams" meant he had been traded. I looked at a couple of ways to rephrase this, but is it important to mention in the lead that the Chargers had a losing record for these seasons? Could we just make it "Fouts struggled during his first three seasons in the league"?
~~"Fouts went on to set single-game records": are these Ducks records? Pac-8 records? I think the former, judging by the following sentences, but it should be clear without reading on.~~
"Prothro speculated that Fouts was disgruntled due to Harris's signing and contract": I don't think this accurately reflects the two sources given, since Prothro doesn't mention the size of the contract. Splitting the sentence to make it clear which part is due to Prothro would make it awkwardly long, so how about removing Prothro -- the attribution to him isn't really important -- like so: "Fouts was reportedly annoyed by Harris's acquisition by the Chargers, and by the size of Harris's contract, but ..."?
I re-added the ref you cut -- the new wording works but I think both refs are needed to support it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:49, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are several duplicate links: I removed one that was duplicated in a single paragraph, but the others might be deliberate as they're in different parts of the text so I'll leave them to your judgement. There's a script that can spot these; the ones I saw were for UPI, Tommy Prothro, Super Bowl, Epic in Miami, AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year Award, and scout (sport).
'Louie Kelcher commented, "Dan has been saying this since 1977... Guys have to live with that."' Can we cut this? Kelcher hasn't been mentioned before and it doesn't really tell us anything new about Fouts.
~~"Fouts' passer rating was second only to Anderson in the NFL": as far as I can see we haven't mentioned an Anderson before this.~~
~~"working alongside acclaimed veteran announcer Keith Jackson": I think "acclaimed" is unnecessary, and somewhat WP:PEACOCKy.~~
~~"Fouts still does color commentary": needs an "as of" qualifier. And who does he do this for? I had a look at the source; is this just an in-stadium announcer role?~~
~~Suggest combining all three short paragraphs in the "Other media" section into a single paragraph.~~

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:14, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Christie Thanks, I've gone through these now. The only one I'd question is the Louie Kelcher quote. Fouts took the opposite side from his teammates on the strike, so their reaction may be of interest to the reader. The two quotes give a more positive and a more negative reaction. I'll change it though if you strongly believe it should be removed. Harper J. Cole (talk) 23:20, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Looks good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:49, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review: pass

To follow in a couple of days. - SchroCat (talk) 19:48, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You need to make consistent your capitalisation into one format. At present it's a mix of sentence case and title case. It doesn't matter which one you choose, but it needs to be the same throughout
You should standardise your approach to linking publications: you do on some, you don't on others. My preference is not to link any of them as the links are not helpful to readers, but your call – as long as it's consistent
FN359 (IMDB). Per WP:IMDB, this is not a reliable source

- SchroCat (talk) 19:47, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

SchroCat Thanks, now amended. Harper J. Cole (talk) 22:49, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All good - now passed on sources. - SchroCat (talk) 08:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

HF

I'll try to review this soon. Hog Farm _Talk 06:09, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

MSincccc

College career

When Oregon replaced their head coach Jerry Frei at the end of the year,... Could you link Jerry Frei in this sentence?

Broadcasting

When he announced his retirement, Fouts stated his desire to work as a commentator, starting with the upcoming 1988 season. Could "upcoming" be dropped from this sentence?
As of 2024, Fouts still provides televised color commentary for Chargers' preseason games. Could this version be used in the sentence?
In 1998, Fouts made his big-screen debut, portraying himself in the football comedy The Waterboy, starring Adam Sandler. Could the director's name be mentioned here?

Personal life

Fouts married his first wife, public health major Julianne Mehl, in 1977. You could either omit the phrase "public health major" or rephrase the sentence as:

Fouts married his first wife, Julianne Mehl, a public health major, in 1977.

He had two children from his first marriage,... Using "has" here would be more appropriate since "had" implies past relevance (e.g., he has passed away, lost contact,etc.) whereas "has" suggests they are still his children.
His son Dominic died of colon cancer in 2012. Could you please clarify whether Dominic was his son from his first or second marriage?
The family set up the Dominic Fouts Memorial Cancer Fund, with Dan Fouts as an adviser. "Dan" could be omitted in this sentence.
He is an avid golfer who has appeared at numerous charity events. This version could be used if he does play golf at the events he has attended.

This rounds off my initial list of suggestions for the article's improvement. Harper J. Cole I hope you find them constructive. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 10:51, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

MSincccc Thanks, I've gone through these now. I dropped an apostrophe from the second point and a comma from the fourth one as I feel the lines scan better that way. Harper J. Cole (talk) 23:12, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]